There's been some discussion about how big Old Saint Hill was, and what kinds of stats orgs need to achieve in order to match its production.

I found the following info in Eric Townsend's The Sad Tale of Scientology:

In 1982 a booklet called 'How Big was Old Saint Hill' was published. This gives some idea of how successfully this Org operated. The data we have in the booklet runs from the beginning of 1965 to September 1967 ,The start of the operation coincides with a reliable method of achieving the state of Clear. Prior to that time it had been a pretty hit and miss process and most of the people who had achieved the state had beer cleared personally by Ron Hubbard. Now a programme of steps was available which comparatively new auditors, not necessarily Clear themselves, could be taught to deliver.

The operation started with less than six staff and during its first quarter was turning over an average of L1,490 per week (at 1965 values). Growth in turnover and staff was very rapid. Within six months turnover had reached an average of L4,521 per week and staff were approaching the 200 mark. Over the next 12 months staff numbers levelled off at 250 but turnover reached a weekly average of L9,532. By the end of the final year for which we have figures average weekly turnover had reached L19,261.

Much more important than turnover figures were the actual products of the activity. Clears were being mass produced. At its peak Saint Hill produced 21 Clears in one week, There was a delivery staff of 50 Auditors. Twelve of these were 'Review Auditors' whose job it was to sort out any case that got bogged down. There were 200 people training to be auditors plus another 100 studying other things. The number of students completing courses in any one week averaged between 40 and 50.

Catarina quotes some great old PLs in an a.r.s. message, including a quote from LRH ED 339R-1 INT 10 Oct 82 THE MAKE-BREAK POINT OF AN ORG:

"And it is very interesting that it went from SIX staff to over 250 in just a few weeks! "

The numbers coincide with what Eric says was reported in the booklet ... although it sounds like the booklet describes an increase from 6 staff to 250 in about 18 months, which seems a LITTLE longer than "just a few weeks" to me.

So, how close are various orgs to that size?

The recent post about Cincinnati org said

"52 of our 78 staff currently, are FULL TIME staff "

In 1998, Charlotte Kates posted the Philly staff list; I count about 30 names.

Cerridwen says Celebrity Centre Florence has 73 staff, while Verona org has 106.

Based on little bits of info I get here and there, I think SF has about 25-30 people on staff... although I'm not sure if that's Day and Foundation combined, or if D + Fdn would be 50-60.

(Incidentally, in 1995, the San Francisco org held its New Years party at the Spectrum Gallery, which has a capacity of 400 people ... so, theoretically, only about 400 San Francisco Scientologists - or less - would have been expected to show up at a big Scn party then.)

I also have a printout of some game standings from 2001 showing 4 "leagues":

A League

CC Int
LA Day

B League

Los Gatos
Orange County
Stevens Creek

C League

Boston Day
Boston Fdn
CC Portland
DC Day
DC Fdn
Mountain View
New York Day
New York Fdn
Portland Day
Saint Louis
San Diego
San Francisco Day
San Francisco Fdn
Seattle Day
Twin Cities Fdn

D League

Ann Arbor
Austin Day
Austin Fdn
CC Dallas
CC Las Vegas
CC Nashville
CC New York
Detroit Day
Detroit Fdn
Hawaii Day
Hawaii Fdn
Kansas City
Las Vegas Day
Las Vegas Fdn
Long Island
Los Angeles Fdn
New Haven
Portland Fdn
Puerto Rico
Salt Lake City
Santa Barbara
Seattle Fdn
Twin Cities Day

This tells me that the orgs to watch are

Los Gatos
Orange County
Stevens Creek

... and I would think Mountain View could be added to that list.

Unfortunately, I don't think we have any staff counts for any of those orgs.

However, if Philly and San Francisco are typically in the under 40 staff members range, it seems unlikely to me that any of the B League orgs would be likely to have more than 100 staffers. So trying to get up to 250 staff members seems like a near-impossibility to me.

Now, on the other hand, let's look at the products mentioned in the Eric Townsend book.

"At its peak Saint Hill produced 21 Clears in one week ... The number of students completing courses in any one week averaged between 40 and 50."

Even without completions lists from org mags, I can state with great confidence that no org in B, C, or D League is clearing even 10 people a week, nor does any of them have 40-50 course completions a week.

Heck, AOLA had 1714 TOTAL completions in 2002 - that's courses AND services - and that's the highest ever since at least 1994! (40 course completions a week would, of course, be 2080 course completions a year.)

And according to my database HORTON (Holder of Records, Tallier of Numbers), AOLA's only produced 339 Clears in that entire 10-year period.

So by THAT standard - production of course completions and Clear attests - AOLA is NOT Saint Hill size.

And if AOLA can't manage it, fer cryin out loud - who can?

I would sure love to get staff counts from these other orgs, especially the B League orgs.

Feel free to email me info about any staff counts you know - or, of course, you can drop me an anonymous note at my mailbox.